Curse

LuckyGiant · Sep 01, 2006, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Personally I think this is a stupid idea. PvP need 8 skills to create a build of their liking. 8k faction is not hard to come by. Changing builds - rinse and repeat, while building up a skill bank! But if pvp people want to pay for this sure go ahead, doesn't affect me.

BUT from the point of view that it will allow PvP people that have purchased chapter 3 a chance to compete I think it is good, just poorly implemented. Imagine by chapter 5+ we are likely going to have many skill packs, they might even need joint weapon upgrades /rune packs, the price new players need to pay to stay competitive will just keep rising...

Spallenzani · Sep 01, 2006, 09:36 AM // 09:36

The precedent was already set with purchasable character slots. This doesn't move us any closer to a world with purchasable vanity armor sets.

Since GW has to keep items balanced for pvp, but also has to appeal to the pve treasure hunters, the easiest way to differentiate common items from rare items is through vanity skins. Selling vanity skins through the online store would have no effect on pvp, but would completely destroy any incentive for pve treasure hunters to continue playing the game. Selling skill unlocks through an online store, on the other hand, has about the same effect on the game balance as selling purchasable character slots, i.e. none.

SilentAssassin · Sep 01, 2006, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Hi there, let me break it down for you.

So by your logic, Anet should never improve the game at all. I mean, if we have had to deal with all the bugs and issues, why shouldn't everyone else?

I hope you also realise that this is unlocking skills for PvP, not PvE. PvE characters will always have to unlock the skills themselves. As such this update only effects PvP players, most of whom are crying out for UAX. The ability to buy skills in the online store is an idea that has come up repeatedly before and has been praised by the competitive community every time.

What does having unlocked the skills "properly" prove? And seriously, stop being so selfish. Just because you have had to do it doesn't mean it shouldn't be made easier for newer players. Imagine after Nightfall, and the sheer overwhelming amount of skills that new players will have to unlock in order to be competitive. I have UAXed one account, and mostly UAXed a second "the hard way", do you see me complaining? No, because I am looking at the big picture, and the future of the competitive PvP community.

Any PvP match that is ever decided by unlocks is at such a ridiculously low level it makes no difference anyway. By your logic you could equally say that currently PvP matches are decided by time spent playing and not actualy player skill. And lets remember folks, skill over time spent.

Good job Anet, you never fail to pull something awesome out of the bag.

/FULLY AGREE

this is only good for the PvP community in GuildWars

imagine som1 wants to join full PvP aspect of the game but his first game was nightfall or even a later chapter... how the heck will he ever compete when he needs to unlock all those skills, atleast now if he wants to put some money in it he can unlock everything.

Price is good imo.

I know I will never buy any packs like these, just because I love getting all skills unlocked the hard way, but if some ppl don't like that, well then they can buy it, fine by me

Manic Smile · Sep 01, 2006, 09:41 AM // 09:41

this board is so full of whiners...A.net selling these skills does not in anyway ruin your chances as small/large as they might be to be great at PvP...

if you are simply jealous at the inequality between those with/without cash, lol

Sure A.net could have just made a PvP Prophecy UAX for all players when Nightfall is installed but they are in no way obligated. What right do you have to expect A.net to make it free? Want it, fine; but to get all salty when it is not, grow up kiddies...

just because they created a game plan without the need for monthly fees doesn't mean they have to give up every means for profit...now when we start seeing items that are more then simply graphic differences being sold...i.e. uber stats for cash...then I'll agree. But anet has every right to sell special content. If it ever gets to a point where A.net spends more time on milking the cow then making actual content...well they won't have a game for much longer and the issue will be moot

grats to A.net on giving those pvp purists what they wanted...

Gun Pierson · Sep 01, 2006, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spallenzani

Since GW has to keep items balanced for pvp, but also has to appeal to the pve treasure hunters, the easiest way to differentiate common items from rare items is through vanity skins. Selling vanity skins through the online store would have no effect on pvp, but would completely destroy any incentive for pve treasure hunters to continue playing the game.

Ok, but where are those treasure hunters selling that max gold req8 plat wand 20% recharge, 20% halves casting time? There are no such items on the market. On the wtb forum, you can see several people wanting to buy such a wand, but without success.

So I rather buy it from the store and play the game with my pimp items than loosing hours and weeks on the trade forums and channels to maybe find one, just maybe.

bele · Sep 01, 2006, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Haven't read any post of this thread.

Just say that this is bad news.We don't know if they are prolly going to sell gold for real cash, or special items for cash or who knows

Pandoras box is open

Bad news indeed, very bad

T U D Y · Sep 01, 2006, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by bele

Haven't read any post of this thread.

Just say that this is bad news.We don't know if they are prolly going to sell gold for real cash, or special items for cash or who knows

Pandoras box is open

Bad news indeed, very bad

You should read the previous posts, to prevent people from repeating things. Especially reading what Gaile Gray said about this, or the fact that special items or cash will not be sold in the Store.

Gli · Sep 01, 2006, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spallenzani

Who are these mysterious pvp people that said this? I can't imagine a pvp player caring whether or not you played pvp. What a pvp player might point out, however, is that GW isn't that great of a pve game, and suggest WoW as a better alternative for those not interested in pvp.

Who are these mysterious players? You haven't been on these forums long have you? It's one of the default one-liners posted in response to people complaining about the lacking state of Factions PvE

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spallenzani

If Anet designed the game to force pvp players to play pve then they wouldn't have included pvp-only characters as an option. There would only be storyline characters, and if you wanted to pvp you would have to create a pve character first and play through the storyline. Like in WoW.

In denial much are you? The game didn't even have Balthazar Faction on release. There isn't a question WHATSOEVER that ANet intended people to play PvE for their unlocks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spallenzani

For some strange reason, you seem to think that pvp players play pvp to "achieve a certain goal", "reward," or "benefit" - where that goal, reward, or benefit is: Unlocking skills.

That's exactly backwards. PvP players play because they like the competition and the rewards that competition brings. While part of that reward is faction, faction is but a means to an end - with the end being fame, fun, and, for a select few, a tiny, tiny fortune. When pvp players unlock everything possible to unlock with faction - and many of us do - we don't all of a sudden stop playing pvp. The players who reach this point are generally the same pvpers who don't care about collecting pointless junk in the first place.

You're confused. I didn't refer to the wishes of PvP players anywhere in any of my posts. I've been referring to the way the game was originally designed and intended to be played.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spallenzani

Many pvp players come from the fps world, where the entire point of the game is the thrill of the competition, not who can unlock the best guns in story mode.

Right, and they've got their wish, at a steep price. I don't think the 'fps world' has you pay $9.95 per gun does it? The truth of the matter is, the game is STILL designed to make people invest SOMETHING to get their unlocks. Only now, money has become an option. If ANet was truly invested in keeping a fair, competitive playing environment, why did they involve money in the process?

Gun Pierson · Sep 01, 2006, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by T U D Y

You should read the previous posts, to prevent people from repeating things. Especially reading what Gaile Gray said about this, or the fact that special items or cash will not be sold in the Store.

Indeed they're not sold in the online GW store, but on ebay. Think about it.

T U D Y · Sep 01, 2006, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Indeed they're not sold in the online GW store, but on ebay. Think about it.

And what would you want ANet to do about this, except clearly state that they do not agree to this, and take whatever measures they can to prevent it? This happens with every major MMO out there, it's not just GW...

On a different note, here's my view on things: first of all, this change only affects PvP. PvE players have nothing to worry about. Besides, people have always complained about the amount of pve/skill unlocking grind you have to go through in order to unlock the necessary skills and be competitive in PvP. UAS has been an ongoing request from the GW community ever since GW was launched.

Second, one of GW's mottos is "Skill over time spent". This was all true, until now. Chapters are coming out every 6 months, and with 450+ skills in Prophecies, 300 skills in Factions and Nightfall coming out in less than 2 months, we'll probably have around 1000 skills to unlock for UAX. This will definitely put the players that already have Prophecies and Factions (and unlocked most of the skills from both) in a clear advantage over the others. Without this option, it becomes very difficult for newer players to jump into PvP, especially with new chapters coming out every 6 months.

Another thing people are saying is that that the ones who have gone through the pain and grind to unlock everything will be in a slight disadvantage now that others will be able to take out their CC and do the same in just 3 clicks instead of several months. From my point of view (I'm at UAX now) I don't feel threatened or "robbed" in any way by the people who will reach UAS by buying unlock packs: it's one thing to unlock the skills, and a whole different thing to know how to use them properly. And besides, I don't have to pay for the skills like they did.

I believe all that we'll see is just a new bunch of UAS W/E-s with Meteor Shower or Mo/N-s with Life Transfer, and nothing else. People will unlock the skills, but will they know how to use them? In the end, it's still personal skill and gameplay experience that tells people apart in PvP...

frickett · Sep 01, 2006, 02:40 PM // 14:40

I kind of have mixxed feelings about it. It just seems to be more of a split between PVP and PVE to me on one hand. I mean It only unlocks them for PVP, so I dont have much use for them, It wasnt that hard to unlock them anyway, If you pvp'ed just had to use some faction. But any new PVE character I make still has to learn/buy skills independently. This seems tantamount to ebaying gold. Why do people ebay gold? Either because they are lazy, or dont have the time to farm for gold. Why do people pay for skills? Either because they are lazy, or dont have the time to farm for skills. Seems strange to me. Also are these skills available to people who dont have Prophesies? I thought you had to buy Prophesies to have access to prophesies skills. If Prophecies only players do not have access to factions storage, then factions only players should NOT have access to prophesies skills.(sorry if I am mistaken in my assumption that factions only players have access to prophesies skills). However I think this is a step in the direction of skill vs grind. Now (at least for pvp) you dont have to grind or farm to get skills. Anyway those are my opinions. Not all of them mind you, but the ones I want to share.

JR · Sep 01, 2006, 02:42 PM // 14:42

I wish people would stop comparing purchasable UAS to buying items like Fissure Armor, leet PvE equipment or rank. They are in no way on the same level at all. Equipment and titles are things you EARN in the game as a visible and very real reward for doing something (however meaningless that something is). Skill unlocks are just something you have to, and will do eventually.

Neriandal Freit · Sep 01, 2006, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Here Here JR.

I dont mind this idea, because if you want to purchase a set of skills for 7.00, or 40.00 over all, go right ahead, because your buying your self another game right then and there isntead of manualy taking the time, and being a real good player at the end of it all.

As long as ANET doesnt get carried away with these sort of things, it's all good.

Gaile Gray · Sep 01, 2006, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by stueyman2099

I've probably posted this 3 or more times today, but I'll do it again. I'm going to make this very, very simple. Having every skill unlocked (UAS) does NOT make you a better player. Having access to all the (good) skills is a baseline requirement for competitive PvP in Guild Wars i.e. you really need the good stuff to do well. This helps level the playing field. Lets put it this way, they can bring a gun to a gun fight now, instead of a knife. This doesn't teach them to use the gun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tainek

those who earned [skills] by playing, you have the advantage of experiance, they dont, money cant buy experiance

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaguya

You can't buy the skill to use the skills. PvP is still based on your personal skill, not money. Even if team A has bought the full skillpack, they will not beat team B that has experience in PvP, even if team B doesn't have full skillpack. Buying the skillpack is useless if you don't know how to use the skills. You still need experience in the game to use that skillpack you bought efficiently. Only "advantage" buying the pack is that the player doesn't have to spend tons of time grinding faction to unlock the skills one by one... And the game wasn't about grinding in the first place anyways...

These threads, and many more like them, express a point cannot be stated strongly enough. With the PvP Unlock Packs, a player may acquire the skills to play one or more characters. But acquiring the skill to play is his/her own responsibility, and something that cannot be purchased. You can buy a hammer, but does that make you an expert cabinetmaker? The skill packs simply enable a player to obtain the tools to play, but learning to use those tools in a successful way requires effort and investment of a non-monetary type.

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

At last, A-net fulfill the desires of a well-known kind of players: the Casual PvPer. When you have a job, a social life and a family, it's kinda hard to PvP with all these expansions. To stay competitive, you need the new skills of each chapter, but it's very time consuming. Thank you, A-net.

This is one of the major reasons the PvP Unlocks are available. Thanks for making that clear.

~Gaile

Loviatar · Sep 01, 2006, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDragoon

This has greed written all over this I don't know where to begin.

.

this is exactly what the current crop of bitchers wanted Anet to do in the first place

HOW MANY OF YOU....................

remember all of the earlier posts on this and other forums stating that the more chapters that come out with more skills the less chance a PVP person will pick it up due to the truly staggering amount of time getting the skills they need so they can play what they want to

how many of you remember all the posts asking for a PVP ONLY version?

a PVP VERSION with only the skills already unlocked and ready to use but maybe a bit cheaper.........say 10 dollars cheaper than the regular version?

well they gave it to you including the 10 dollar discount

now stop bitching because they gave you what you asked for in pvp

kh1ndjal · Sep 01, 2006, 02:55 PM // 14:55

saying skill unlocks for money is like saying collector's edition with the extra weapons
either does not give the extra payer any advantage over those who don't

SPIRIT OF THE SEA · Sep 01, 2006, 02:56 PM // 14:56

wow asking money for in game skills listen gaile most ppl arnt taht obssesd they can just pvp and get factions NO ONE BUY THOOSE WASTE OF MONEY CAN GET EM FREE IN GAME BUY PVPING AND TURNING IN FACTIONS FOR THE SKILLS!

Mithie · Sep 01, 2006, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Firstly, you guys asked for this to happen, or do you want me to dig up the other thread where Gaile ASKED you for your suggestions?

Secondly, I have unlocked every single skill in the game through hardline gvg sessions every night with my guild, and I still play PvP, so clearly the motivation for PvP, at least for me, is not to unlock more skills.

Thirdly, what?

Poison Ivy · Sep 01, 2006, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

You've got to be joking.

It takes, what, 10 minutes of RA to get 1000 Balthazar faction? So spend an hour in RA and play any build you want. Not hard.

ArenaNet did this to reduce the value of accounts on eBay.

Someone knows a bit too much about Ebay

I still wished Anet could just release a Title: UAX, that would've been more promising than Rank, and could prove one's PvP skill easily, instead they had to craw around Ebay and trying to take EULA violaters out of business.

Bit of a two way consideration, must've took alot of thinking for Anet to decide this....

Also, in GW, of course buying a Hammer does not make you a good cabnet maker, but this is GW, you have to be a good cabnet maker to get the parts for a hammer.

Gaile Gray · Sep 01, 2006, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPIRIT OF THE SEA

wow asking money for in game skills listen gaile most ppl arnt taht obssesd they can just pvp and get factions NO ONE BUY THOOSE WASTE OF MONEY CAN GET EM FREE IN GAME BUY PVPING AND TURNING IN FACTIONS FOR THE SKILLS!

Ummm, if I'm reading you properly, no one is required to purchase the packs. Please feel free to continue to earn your skills the traditional way, as I will. The PvP Unlock Packs are another option that some players have requested. It's that simple: An additional choice for players.